2019 Federal Budget and Tax Tips For Investors
Jamie Golombek
April 3, 2019 12:00 pm to 1:00 pm ET


Peter Campbell: Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us today. On behalf of CIBC Investor's Edge, I like to welcome you to this webinar. My name is Peter Campbell and I'll be your host for this event. 


Now, a few things to know before we get started. CIBC Investor's Services Inc does not provide investment or tax advice or recommendations. So, everything we shared with you today is for education purposes only. We're recording today's session and a link will be emailed to any that registered online. 

To view this webinar in full screen, please click on the expander arrow, located on the top right hand corner of your screen. And if you have any questions during the presentation, please kindly take a note and you will have the opportunity to submit your question after the presentation. 

Our topic for today's webinar will provide information on 2019 Federal Budget & Tax Tips For Investors. Present us today, we're very excited to have Jamie Golombek here to share his expertise in this subject matter. Jamie is CIBC's Managing Director of Tax and Estate Planning and works closely with advisors from across CIBC to support our clients and deliver integrated financial planning and advisory solutions. 

With great pleasure, please join me in welcoming Jamie for today's presentation. Jamie Golombek: Well, thanks very much and welcome everyone joining us today on webinar live and watching on replay. We're going to talk about the federal budget of 2019. 


My goal is not to cover every possible item that was in the budget but to really focus on some of the tax measures that are important for individuals depending on your particular situation. 


I've chosen these eight topics to focus on. The new Canada Training Credit, they change the Home Buyers' Plan. We'll spend some time on the changes to employee-executive stock options, and a minute on the new CPP automatic enrollment policy. We'll talk for a few minutes about the changes being made to the donation of cultural property, and what is cultural property. Some changes to registered plans. 

Specifically RDSPs and RRSP and risk. A few changes on the mutual fund side that could affect some ETF investors. And finally, a couple of comments that the government made on administration & enforcement of tax rules specifically in the real estate area. 


So, let's begin. Well, there were no changes to the tax rates. So, we still have five federal tax brackets in Canada. We start at income up to $47,000 at 15%. We go all the way up to the top bracket which is income over $210,000 and that's at 33%. Of course those are the federal rates only. And on top of those federal rates you add the provincial rates depending on your province of residence. Typically speaking, that would bring your bottom rate to somewhere around 23% to 25%. And the top rate to as high as 54% depending on the province that you live in. 


One of the issues that we've had over the last number of years and this was cited in a report by The Fraser Institute back in December 2017, is that we really had too many tax expenditure. In other words, credits, deductions and another special preferences, estimating that we are spending about $7 billion a year in terms of tax compliance. Each one of these credits and deductions and special preference items, Adds a lot of time and frustration to completing a tax return. In addition to that, you've got store receipts and fill out forms "BOUTIQUE" TAX CREDIT & OTHER TAX INEFFICIENCIES to determine your eligibility. 


In fact, some of the academic journals in the last few years has suggested that they really should start to eliminate these boutique tax credits. And we have seen the government move in that direction over the last number of years, with the elimination of the education amount and textbook amount for secondary education, and the elimination of children's fitness and arts amount and even the public transit credit. 

And again, it's not that the government doesn't believe in children's fitness. It's just that subsidizing parents by giving them an extra $75 a year, let's say just, so the kids can play hockey, is not actually resulting in kids being more fit. Otherwise, it's better to put the money directly into the program itself rather than subsidizing activity that parents are going to do anyway. So, notwithstanding the elimination of these five credits, this year's budget saw the introduction of two brand new credits. 


The first one I'm going to spend a few minutes on is the Canada Training Credit. So, what is the Canada Training Credit and where it did come from? Well, if you take a look at the Budget 2019 report, they look at what prevents people from going back to school and getting some additional training or education. 


And based on a survey at OECD, they said, number one reason, of course, is that people are too busy at work to get some extra training and number two, is that it's too expensive. So, what this new program aims to do, is to address that second one. 


The fact that it’s too expensive. So, starting next year. Eligible Canadians will be able to claim a Canada Training Credit. Eligible. Who will be eligible? You got to be between age 25 and 65, resident of Canada. You have to have some income, like self-employment or employment income of more than $10,000 a year but you can't have too much income. Yours got to be below $147,000. You got to file a tax return. 

So, you'll start to accumulate $250 every single calendar year. This will be tracked in a notional balance account by the CRA. You'll be able to see your balance online using the My Account feature or on your Notice of Assessment. 

Then you can, starting next year, claim a Canada Training Credit equal to the lower of 50% of your eligible tuition for the program and the balance in your notional account. Good news is, this credit unlike most credit, is a refundable credit. And that means, that even if you have no tax payable, because the basic credit, for example, gets rid of all your taxes, owing on your income you can still get money back from the Canada Training Credit. 


So, for example. If you are accumulating $250 a year from age 25 to 45, ultimately you'll be able to accumulate the maximum which is $5000. And you'll be able to use that towards training. 


So, the way it works is that you can claim the training credit for 50% of the fees. That credit is not also eligible for the tuition credit. But any excess above the 50% is eligible for the regular tuition credit. So, even though we begin the accumulation this year in 2019, the first Canada Training Credit is actually available to you in 2020. 


So, very simple example. Here we got Michelle. Michelle has accumulating the Canada Training Credit for four years: 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022. So, after four years at $250 per year, her balance at the beginning of 2023 is $1000. She enrolls an eligible training that cost $1500. So, she claims a 50% of that as a refundable credit on her tax return that lesser of the balance on her account and 50% of the tuition she actually paid. 

She had $1000 on her account but she paid $1500 at 50% of $750, she can claim $750 and then for the other $750 that's not reimbursed, she can claim the regular tuition credit. Now, 2023 will allow her to accumulate an additional $250 so that by 2024 her balance will have risen again to $500. That's $1000 she had in 2023 less the $750 that she used plus the $250 of new accumulation. So, again, accumulation start this year. The credit begins next year. 


Now, another credit that has been announced is a credit that'll be available starting next year called the tax credit for digital news subscription. So, what this is—is a new refundable a non-refundable credit and it's the amount that you pay for eligible Canadian digital news subscription. Up to $500 a year, will get you 15% non- refundable credit worth $75.

 If you're subscribing to a combined digital and physical sort of old-school news print subscription unfortunately your credit is limited to the cost of the standalone digital subscription only. This is a temporary five-year credit for amount to paid after this year and before 2025. 


Let's move on now to homeowners. Now, there's a lot of stuff in the budget on first time home-buyers, helping people buy a home, CMHC approved mortgages, co-funding by the government. We're going to getting into that part of it, because we're really focusing today purely on the tax changes that affect individuals. So, the Home Buyers' Plan was improved in the recent budget. 


So, the new rule for the Home Buyers' Plan is that you and your spouse can each withdraw $35,000. That's up from $25,000 --from your RRSP. That's a total of $70,000 for a couple, if you're a first time home buyer and neither you or your spouse have owned or occupied a principal residence in the prior five years and you have bought or plan to build a qualifying home or condo. 

You have to repay your RRSP just like under the general rules, over 15 years. If you miss a repayment in a particular year, that amount is included in your income. And there's no penalty for early repayment. The sooner you repay, the longer the money can stay inside the RRSP without paying any tax. 


The Home Buyers' Plan also has a rule changed coming next year for couples who separate or divorce. To assist them with home-ownership starting next year, you no longer have to be a first time home buyer if you're going through separation or divorce. And that should open up the RRSP plan to be able to borrow from those RRSPs to be able to buy a first home in the case of separation or a divorce. 


One of the biggest changes announced in the budget that may affect various employees and executives who are a member of stock option plans are changes to the repost taxation of employee's stock options. Here we are not trying talking about options that you buy through the exchange. Like put some calls. We're talking here specifically about a stock options which you would be receiving from your employer as an employee or executive of the company. 


So, under the current rules the stock option is exercised at a particular price, usually the price at which they're granted to you. And when you exercise that option, hopefully the stock has got an open value. The tax was required to include the difference between the fair market value of the share on the day you exercised, and the exercise price as employment income. 

However, as long as the options are qualifying, which typically they would be because the exercise price is at least greater equal to the fair market value of the shares on the date they were issued to you, You get what's called a 110(1)(d) or stock option deduction, equal to 50% of the fair market value. 

So, effectively this gives you equivalent to capital gains-like treatment when you exercise your stock options. And I should remind you that this is not a real capital gain. And that you cannot use capital losses against this type of capital gain. It is an employment benefit tax at a 50% inclusion rate like a capital gain. 


Now, if you go back to some history here about four years ago, in the Liberal pre-election platform, they announced that they would cap the stock option benefit. If you look at the document from Department of Finance in 2015, I estimated that about 8000 very high-income Canadians are deducting an average of $400,000 annually from their taxable income via the stock option deduction. 


So, if you take a look at the distribution of stock option deduction according to the recent budget document this data by the way is based on the most recent tax return data of 2017 taxation year. You can see that in Canada, we had 36,000 individuals to claim the stock option deduction. 

But what's interesting is, if you look at the dollar amount that was claimed, the $2 billion, people making over $1 million a year, that's about 2330 individuals claimed at total aggregate of $1.34 billion of stock option deduction. So, the government felt that this was inappropriate and are going to be introducing a new rule that would cap the deduction for stock options from what's called "large, long-established, mature firms" at $200,000 in annual stock option grants. It will not apply, according to the budget document, to start-ups and rapidly growing Canadian businesses. 


Now, this legislation will be introduced sometimes between now and the summer, so some time in June. And will only apply to options issued on a go forward basis. Now, we're going to show you some examples in just a minute. But this brings up a couple of things to point out. First of all, what is a "large, long-established, mature firm" is anyone's guess. We have to await for legislation from the government to determine what type of firms it's really targeting. 

Also, in terms of start-ups and rapidly growing Canadian businesses-- what is included in that definition, again, we don't know. We really have to wait for draft legislation to see who's going to be exempt and who they're going after. And finally, probably go through the examples, keep in mind, that again this is on a go forward basis which means that at some point between now and June we're going to have draft legislation, which means that'll be effective on that date. So, we have a limited, fast-closing window of opportunity to issue options from companies that wish to reward employees or incent executives to be grandfathered of the old rules. 

So, many corporation across Canada that has stock options for their executives are scrambling right now, to look at their stock option's executive policy compensation and decide whether or not they should be issuing options that will be grandfathered such as there's no limit on that stock option deduction that would benefit the employees or executives or whether in fact they wait and issue them after the release. 

Because what interesting is, according to the budget examples, the corporation would be entitled to a deduction from its income for options that no longer qualify for the stock options deduction. And that might be an interesting opportunity for companies to issue options after the date, deduct the amount from income and perhaps, double the amount of options. Because otherwise would've issued to their employee to take into the account the harsher tax treatment. 


So, let me show you of what we're really talking about, here's an example. An individual was granted 100,000 shares at $50 each. And at the date of exercise they are worth $70. So, if we actually do the calculation on that, we see the exercise price is $5 million. We have a fair value at $7 million. And that different of $2 million under today's treatment is eligible for the 50% stock option deduction. And that effectively gives you capital gains-like treatment, and if we assume a top marginal rate on employment income of 50%, you're looking at basically half a million dollars of taxation. And that's the current rules for stock options. 


Now, let's take a look at the newer rule with the $200,000 cap. The cap price is based on the exercise price, the grant price of those options. So, what we do is we take the $200,000 cap. We divide it by grant price of $50 and we see that we have 4000 shares that would be the cap, that would be eligible for the stock options deduction. 


So, again, going through our example. For 4000 shares we exercise it at $50. When the price is $70, that difference of $20 is $80,000, that's eligible for the stock options deduction at 50%. And again, if we're at a 50% tax bracket for marginal income, then our tax on that stock options benefit would be $20,000. But don't forget that's only 4000 of the shares. 


We received 100,000 shares which means the other remaining 96,000 shares are no longer eligible for the stock option deduction. Meaning, when you exercise at $50 and we received $70 for that that difference of $20 works out to income of $1.92 million of which 50% is taxable. 

In other words, our tax rate at 50% we do not get that stock option deductions so, we end up paying tax of $960,000. And we add that to the $20,000 we just computed, that is a total of $980,000. So, that is a huge difference in terms of the tax payable in this example with the proposed treatment. 


Second example. We got a mature company. But in this case we issue the employee under $200,000 worth of stock options. So, we offer 3000 shares at $50 a share. The spread when we exercise is $20. That means that the full $60,000 is eligible for the stock option deduction. At the 50% tax bracket, our tax bill was $15,000. 


And then finally, Example 3, if we have a start-up, it doesn't matter how much we issue the start-ups as exempt. So, imagine that we have 100,000 shares at $1. We exercise it when the price is $6. That $5 difference at 100,000, a half million, a $500,000 is eligible to the 50% stock option deduction which at marginal 50% tax rate, gives you a tax bill of $125,000. 

So, you can see that the rules are different depending on who you work for and the amount of stock options you're going to be receiving. So, stay tune. This announcement will come some time over the next couple of months. And the rules will be changing for employees in stock option plans. 


All right. Let's change the topic entirely. And take a look at the issue of Canada Pension Plan. And a proposed change next year to something that called Auto Enrollment. So, current rules--many of you are familiar with Canada Pension Plan, get your full pension at the age 65. So, for 2019 if you qualified because you've contributed enough years to get your full CPP and you take it right at the age 65, the maximum amount you can get is $1154. 

Now, you can choose if you prefer, to take your CPP early as early as age 60, but that comes with a penalty of 0.6% per month for every month you start CPP before your 65th birth month. Now, if you take it right at age 60, you're looking about 36% less. You also have the option to defer taking CPP until the age 70. In which case, you will get 0.7% per month increase for every month after your birth month at the age 65. 

So in other words, you can end up with 42% more money if you wait to age 70 to collect your CPP. After age 70 there's no point waiting anymore. Because you're not getting any further increase in benefit. So, one of the things the government has noticed is that in some situations people forget to apply for CPP. 

I always wondered why they don't just sign you the CPP. They have your address, they have your name, they know your birthday. At the age 65, they just mail it to you. In any event, what is happening next year is if you have not applied to collect CPP by age 70, then you'll be automatically enrolled in CPP. Because one of the problems that happen, we heard a situation about an investor last year who turned 73 and realized that he had forgotten to collect CPP. 

When he went to apply and get it back at the age 70, he was told, "Sorry, if you only collect 11 months worth of back CPP." So, he permanently lost out at age 70-71 and part of 72, so. To correct that problem starting next year, you're automatically enrolled if you haven't apply at 70, and you'll start to get your Canada Pension Plan. 


There's been a change to the rules governing the donations of cultural property. So, there's currently a rule that says, if you donate Appreciated Securities, Mutual Funds, Seg Funds to registered charity, then you pay no tax on the capital gain. And you get a receipt for the fair market value. There's a very similar rule if you donate cultural property. And let's say you've got a painting that's very valuable. Worth $1,000,000. Cost base of $100,000. You donate that to a museum or an art gallery in Canada, the capital gain of $900,000 would be non-taxable if the painting was certified as cultural property. 

The question then is, what is cultural property? Well, two rules. Number 1, you got to donate the property to a designated institution like a museum or an art gallery. And the property must be of outstanding significance and of national importance. 


And the issue in a case that came out last year, called the Heffel case, involving a painting that was sold on auction in Toronto to a UK buyer. This painting--the shipment of the painting was blocked. Being exported by the Canadian Cultural Property Export Review Board, saying that this is an important painting for Canadian culture. Interestingly, this was not a Canadian painting. 

So, the question before the court was, was this really important for Canadian culture? Why should it be blocked leaving Canada? And the court said--determined that you know, in order to have something as cultural property, you really are required direct connection with Canada's cultural heritage. And they rule that on the end of the day, you know, there's no direct connection and the painting can be exported. 

But the problem with that, is that you had to determine whether or not if the definition now is consistent. Because the definition says, it has to be a national importance. Well, the budget has solved the problem. The budget now has removed the requirement of something being of national importance to be able to get the definition of cultural property and therefore, you can get the capital gains back. 

This should be of great importance not only to wealthy donors that are donating important works of art to our public galleries but also to the public that may now see a more clear proliferation of works of art in our public institutions or museums as a result of this favorable tax change to incent donors to donate their works of art to public institutions. 


There's been a change being announced for next year to registered plans, giving Canadians a new option to annuitize your registered plans. So, currently you must convert your RRSP to a life annuity. You registered annuity at age 71. Starting next year, there'll be two new types of annuities proposed for registered plans. First is the ALDA, the Advance Life Deferred Annuity, which says that you can now use some of the RRSP money or RRIF money to buy a life annuity that can begin at a deferred period of time, not right away. But it must begin no later than age 85. And we give you a guarantee an annual amount for life. This is very helpful in addressing the issue of longevity risk. Because many people are concern with what happen if I outlive my money. 

What if I live too long? And this would solve part of that problem. There's another new type of annuity that should be available next year. It called the Variable Payment Life Annuity. This is primarily available for divine contribution, registered pension plans, where the payments under this annuity will very based on the investment performance of a fund and the mortality experience of the annuities of that fund. So, we don't have a lot of information on this, yet. 

But this should become more apparent in the months ahead if the insurance companies getting on-board and decide to start offering these plans in 2020 as a solution for some people that want certainty that just back to the payment coming out of their RRIFs. 


There's been a major change in the area of Registered Disability Savings Plans. Before we go through that change, let me remind you what a RDSP is useful for. 


A Registered Disability Saving Plan allows family to save up to $200,000 for a beneficiary with a severe disability such as they qualify for the disability tax credit. We set up until you turn 59. You don't get any deduction for your contribution to RDSP but the earnings inside the plan accrue on a completely tax-deferred basis and when the money is taking out of the plans, it's taxable to the individual with the disability. 


Now, of course the main benefit of the RDSP is the grants and bonds that are available. You can get up to $70,000 of government grants and $20,000 of bonds, that's a total of $90,000 deposited into the RDSP for as little as $1500 a year annual contribution. 


So, for example. If you got a family that has relatively low income, and we are contributing $1500 a year for 20 years, that's the contribution in red; we get a $70,000 match on the grant and $20,000 match on the bond. And even at 3% value, 3% growth rate, we actually accumulate a value, and that number should be $166,000 at the end of 20 years. And that's equivalent to an effective rate of return of 14.5%. Primarily because of the grants and the bonds. 

Even a higher-income family that doesn't qualify for the bonds and only gets minimal grants will be able to accumulate a significant amount of money at $1000 a year over 20 years with matching grants and a 3% growth rate, they'll still be able to accumulate over $50,000 at the end of 20 years. So, RDSP are under-utilized but a great plan to save for someone with a severe disability. 

So, the rules currently say that to be eligible for the RDSP you must qualify for the disability tax credit at if the beneficiary ceases to be eligible for the credit, because, perhaps their disability has improved to such to the point that they no longer qualify for the disability credit. Then you had to terminate the RDSP by the end of the year after which the beneficiary cease to be eligible for the credit. 


Now, there was an exception for individuals that are temporarily ineligible for the disability credit. As long as you got a certification from a medical practitioner you can keep the thing open for another five years. 


But effectively, one has now change. What have changed is the rules once the beneficiary cease to become eligible for the disability credit, so... Under the current rules and under the proposed rules, you still can't make a contribution to an RDSP if they're no eligible. And you can no longer get grants and you can no longer get any bonds during that period that you no longer eligible for disability credit. 


But under these old rules, otherwise the current rules, you had to shut down your RDSP by the end of the following year that the individual no longer qualify for disability credit. There was something called the Assistance Holdback Amount which actually a running tally of all the grants and the bonds deposited into the RDSP in the 10 years prior to receiving a payment from the RDSP. 

And the rule said, that if you no longer qualified for a credit, you shut down the RDSP, you have to pay back effectively up to 10 years worth of grants and bonds. And many people said this is unfair. Clearly we had an individual that qualify for the grants and bonds while they had that disability. Why do we have to take it away from them if their situation has improved in the later year? 


So, the rules have now change effective in the budget. It said that, once a beneficiary ceases to become eligible for the disability credit, you do not have to close your RDSP. And it also says, that the Assistance Holdback Amount, if you wait until the age 51 because this is really meant for... you know, later in life for the individual with disability. There are special rules for shorter life expectancy. But if you wait until age 51, and later they start to reduce that holdback period from 10 years, to nine years, to eight years, all the way such at age 60, it's eliminated altogether. 


So, a simple example. I will explain how these works. So in 2009, parents open up an RDSP for their child, Bruce, age 5. Put in $1500 a year, annually to get a matching grant of $3,500 a year. So, after 10 years that $35,000 of grants, and that is the Assistance Holdback Amount. 

In 2024, Bruce's situation improves. And he no longer qualifies for the disability tax credit. Under the new rules, the RDSP can be kept open. The Assistance Holdback Amount is frozen at $35,000 until age 51. But at age 51, it started to decline by $3,500 annually. 

So, if we wait until Bruce is 60, then all the money including the grants, funds can be kept inside the RDSP and be used for Bruce to withdraw with no repayment required. So, this is very, very helpful. And I think would encourage more people to look at the RDSP for someone in the family with a severe disability. 


Okay, we got about five minutes left. Let me spend a few minutes on a few more topics. 


Mutual Funds. There was some very technical anti-avoidance rules that were launched back in 2013 that stopped certain mutual funds in converting income to capital gains but even though, the government introduced that rule in 2013, there were concern that not all income conversion transaction were caught.

So, in this year's budget they expand the anti-avoidance rule to disallow certain multi-fund income conversion structures converting income to gain and also disallowing... the allocation of income to a specific, you know, they're going to be very technical, I'm not going to get into the detail. 


But I will share with you that at least two publicly traded fund families particularly on the ETF and mutual fund side have announced that they could be affected after this year by these proposed changes. 


We have a list here of all the different ETFs that would be potentially impacted. It's available. It's online. Their press release was out there. This is from Horizons. 


And similarly there's one from BMO that also announced that there are impacts of the federal budget on their funds. 


And effectively, they've listed six of their funds that could potentially be caught by the rules. Now, we don't have any more information for those fund companies at this point. You should be okay for 2019 as our understanding, pending for their guidance. But starting 2020 the funds may have different distribution characteristics than they otherwise had in prior years, so stay tune on that. Look for direct information from the fund companies if you are affected by federal budget 2019 changes to mutual funds. 


And then, finally on the area of Enforcement & Administration buried within the hundreds of pages of the budget, was a focus of CRA on what they're looking at, what are of risks they're concerned about and it has to do with real estate. 


CRA announced in the budget that they are going to be devoting more resources to auditing real estate. They are looking at $50 million of additional funding over five years forming new residential and commercial real estate audit teams in high-risk regions like BC and Ontario, focusing on five things. 

Number 1, making sure, as you're now required to do report the sale of your principal residence on your scheduled personal tax return. Number 2, if you're not eligible for the principal residence exemption you are properly reporting a capital gain. Number 3, if you're frequently "flipping" your residential real estate you reporting that income as business income that's 100% taxable and not as a capital gain. Number 4, if you're involved in buying and selling real estate that you're properly reporting all of the commissions that you received from those sales. 

And finally, if you're involved with a new home or there's GST/HST rebates that they're properly submitting the appropriate amount of GST and HST. 


So in summary, we've been through a lot of material today. We try to take you through some of the highlights of the 2019 federal budget as it affects various individuals and investors. All of this information contained online at the link that you see on the screen. And our 2019 federal budget report that we prepared from inside of the budget lock up in Ottawa in March of 2019. 

So, with that we're going to give you some instructions on how you can ask any questions that you have. Thank you. Peter Campbell: Thank you Jamie for insightful presentation. While Jamie is reviewing some of the questions, I wanted our audience who joined later to know you can type your questions in the Q&A panel located on the right-hand side of your screen. 


If you wish to review this webinar again, a link will be emailed to everyone that registered to this webinar. Also, I'd like to request the audience to ask question to today's topics and to avoid asking questions that are specific to our security or company. Well, we have some great questions coming in. So, let me pass this to Jamie now. 

Jamie Golombek: Sure. One of the first questions that we have here has to do with the Home Buyers' Plan. And whether or not the Home Buyers' Plan is the right way to buy a first home. Now, again with the introduction of the TFSA about 10 years ago, the TFSA has been another option that individuals have had. 

In other words, the ability to access money from your TFSA to buy your first home has also been something that we didn't have, you know, of course before the TFSA. The thing investors really need to look at is the source of the down payment. In other words, if you're going to buy your first home do you want to access money in your RRSP, in your TFSA? 

I think it really comes down to the classic question that we've always been asked. Which is, should I do RRSP or should I do TFSA? Again, that really depends on your tax bracket today versus your expected tax bracket in the future. 

Again, most people would say that if your tax rate today is relatively low, then you will go with your TFSA. Because it will only get higher in the future. On the other hand, if your tax rate is high today and will be lower in your retirement, then you go with RRSPs. 

So really, that whole decision on the Home Buyers' Plan really comes down to where is your money? Is it in TFSA or is it in RRSP? Another question that we received that has to deal with the RDSPs and why we think there's a sort of a low take up on that. And I guess statistic shows that really people are not properly taking up the RDSP and I think it's really an education thing. As we spread the word about the RDSPs, as we make it easier for individuals to qualify for the disability tax credit, then ultimately, I think, the take up will be higher. 

Really, once again, it's something worth looking at. There are very generous grants and bonds available. So, we do encourage if there's someone in your family with a disability then it’s worth looking at-- worth looking at the RDSP. At this point, I don't think we've got any other questions. Well, thank you very much, Jamie. 

Looks like that's all the time we have for today. I'm sure I speak on behalf of the entire audience that I truly enjoy listening to this insightful presentation and a great presentation, it was. On behalf of CIBC Investor's Edge, I would like to thank the audience for attending today. Should you have any questions or comments, please visit the Investor's Edge website or feel free to get in touch with us by phone, live chat or email. 

Thank you for joining us today.